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	<title>gretta-vosper &amp;laquo; WordPress.com Tag Feed</title>
	<link>http://wordpress.com/tag/gretta-vosper/</link>
	<description>Feed of posts on WordPress.com tagged "gretta-vosper"</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 05:39:37 +0000</pubDate>

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<title><![CDATA[good grief, maple leaf style]]></title>
<link>http://boredmelo.wordpress.com/?p=79</link>
<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 04:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>melo</dc:creator>
<guid>http://boredmelo.wordpress.com/?p=79</guid>
<description><![CDATA[Over at The Corner, Mark Steyn points out an article at National Post.
There is a Bible on a pedesta]]></description>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over at <a href="http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MTg4MTM3NGViMGE1NDg1YzEwZDI0NWJhMGU5YzFlMjQ=">The Corner</a>, Mark Steyn points out an article at <a href="http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/story.html?id=490325&#38;p=1">National Post</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>There is a Bible on a pedestal in Gretta Vosper's West Hill United Church in Toronto. She would prefer it did not have a special place, she said, because it is just a book among other books. In a similar way, the cross that is high above the altar has no special meaning, but there are a few older congregants for whom the Bible and the cross are still nice symbols so there they remain.</p>
<p>Though an ordained minister, she does not like the title of reverend. It is one of those symbols that hold the church back from breaking into the future -- to a time "when the label Christian won't even exist" and the Church will be freed of the burdens of the past. To balance out those symbols of the past inside West Hill, there is a giant, non-religious rainbow tapestry just behind the altar and multi-coloured streamers hang from the ceiling.</p></blockquote>
<p>I would think the occupation of minister would be an odd choice for someone who doesn't think the <a href="http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/64396/Bible">Bible</a> is special.  But then, her thoughts on <a href="http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/303091/Jesus-Christ">Christ's</a> place in <a href="http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/115240/Christianity">Christianity</a> are a bit odd, too.</p>
<p><!--more read more --></p>
<blockquote><p>"The central story of Christianity will fade away," she explained. "The story about Jesus as the symbol of everything that Christianity is will fade away."</p>
<p>...</p>
<p>Ms. Vosper does not believe in the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, the miracles and the sacrament of baptism. Nor does she believe in the creeds, the presence of Christ in communion or that Jesus was the Son of God.</p>
<p>In With or Without God, her book that was formally launched this week, she writes that Jesus was a "Middle Eastern peasant with a few charismatic gifts and a great posthumous marketing team."</p>
<p>The Bible is used in her services, but it gets rewritten to be more contemporary and speak to more people. Even the <a href="http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/348087/Lords-Prayer">Lord's Prayer</a> -- also known as the Our Father -- does not make the cut because it creates an image of a God who intervenes in human existence. And then there is the "Father" part that is not inclusive language and carries with it the notion of an overbearing tyrant who condemns people to hell.</p></blockquote>
<p>Hmm... and she's a Christian minister, because?  I really don't get it.  It sounds like what might happen if I worked with Code Pink.  I don't believe in anything they do, but hey, they need me to spout their party line in a less than enthusiastic manner.  :roll:</p>
<blockquote><p>She envisions a time when there is no religious divisions and everyone shares in their common values and their only differences are cultural. Still, she said there is no conflict with this and being in the church.</p>
<p>"The church is extremely important because it can be a transformative element in individuals' lives and communities," she said. "And that was the root of what the Christian Church was about: transforming the way people see themselves in relation</p>
<p>to the communities around them and in relation to each other and about living that in community. Christianity took over that story and manipulated it into a very different story."</p></blockquote>
<p>Wow... and here I thought the root of Christianity was Christ.  Boy, do I feel foolish now.  :roll:</p>
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<title><![CDATA[TFP Must Reads]]></title>
<link>http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/?p=512</link>
<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>L. Ron Brown</dc:creator>
<guid>http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/?p=512</guid>
<description><![CDATA[The following articles are must-reads:
In the wake of the release of Ben Stein&#8217;s Expelled: No ]]></description>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The following articles are must-reads:</p>
<p>In the wake of the release of Ben Stein's <em>Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed</em>, <em>Science After Sunclipse</em> writes an <a href="http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=626" target="_blank">absolutely excellent piece</a> (so excellent, in fact, that it was prominently linked on PZ Myers' <em><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula" target="_blank">Pharyngula</a></em>, which is, to my knowledge, the world's most read science blog) on the depressing track record of abuse directed to evolutionists by conservative Christians in America. He speaks of how evolutionists who dared to teach evolution, not teach the nonsensical Adam and Eve story of Creation as literally true, defend science, criticize a pro-ID book, or so much as send out an email on a talk by a critic of ID have been expelled, demoted, litigated, faith-tested, harassed, ostracized, threatened, and physically assaulted by <span style="text-decoration:line-through;">humble</span>, <span style="text-decoration:line-through;">forgiving</span>, <span style="text-decoration:line-through;">nonjudgmental</span>, <span style="text-decoration:line-through;">neighbour-loving</span>, <span style="text-decoration:line-through;">Golden Rule-abiding</span>, "Christians". I absolutely cannot recommend this piece enough.</p>
<p>I also strongly recommend reading the <em>Atheist Ethicist</em>, Alonzo Fyfe's <a href="http://atheistethicist.blogspot.com/2008/04/washington-post-supports-anti-atheist.html" target="_blank">expose</a> on a Washington Post editorial article which supports anti-atheist bigotry. This editorial, entitled <em>A Hint of Tolerance</em>, lauds a public statement of by the King of Saudi Arabia in which he calls for a coming together of Muslims, Christians and Jews to safeguard humanity. And what does humanity need safeguarding from? The disintegration of the family and <em>the rise of atheism</em>. Ah, nothing brings rivals together like a common enemy, right? And who better than the atheists, who've always proven a reliable scapegoat. Fyfe muses over whether the Washington Post would have ran an editorial entitled "A Hint of Tolerance" if the Saudi King had called for the unification of Muslims, Christians and Jews against the world's Hindus, Sikhs or Buddhists.</p>
<p>The final must-read is <a href="http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080420/FEATURES07/804200331/1016/FEATURES07" target="_blank">a piece</a> at <em>Times Argus</em> on nontheist church-goers. This article reports on how some atheists, agnostics and non-religious people attend church - whether they be one of the few and new freethought congregations, liberal religious organizations that are welcoming to non-believers (e.g., Humanist Judaism congregations), or traditional theistic churches which are accepting of non-believers. While not subscribing or want to feign a belief in God, some nontheists still place a high value on the community aspects of religion - the support network, fellowship, a village context for raising children, a forum for establishing charity work, etc. I for one strongly support the establishment of non-faith-based communities of this nature. [<em>Thanks to Xander L for sharing this article</em>]. On a related note, a book which I recently learned of that seems to be worth a read is <a href="http://www.grettavosper.ca/" target="_blank">Gretta Vosper</a>'s <em>With or Without God: Why the Way We Live</em> <em>is More Important than What We Believe </em>(reviewed <a href="http://progressivechristianity.ca/ccpc/index.php?option=com_content&#38;task=view&#38;id=213&#38;Itemid=46" target="_blank">here</a>). Vosper, who is President of the <em><a href="http://www.progressivechristianity.ca" target="_blank">Canadian Centre for Progressive Christianity</a></em>, seems to be advocating for a liberalization, modernization, and de-literalization of Christianity, similar to that of modern Judaism. From what I gather, she is pushing for a new humanist cultural Christianity, similar to the prevalent humanist cultural Judaism which maintains celebration of the history, the culture, and the community while at the same time not having to clutch onto archaic theistic dogma. This sounds like a great way to go. Check Vosper's website for book tour dates in Toronto (e.g., at the University of Toronto's Multi-Faith Centre) and tonight in Kingston, ON.</p>
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